And Then There Was None Options

[Cargoth]

This expansion Judgement has killed every boss and made every legendary.

I am very glad to see all of us complete an expansion. I would like to thank you all for the extraordinary honor of raiding with you this release.

[Typh]

Lies! We're still missing Algalon!

[Zyblue]

Huh what? We've got multiple Starcallers.

And grats to Dom btw.

[Cargoth]

The original post reads as sign off because I knew that for normal I'm happy to do whatever, but for heroic mode I'd rather min/max. If people would rather casual it up, that's cool, but its not for me.

Best of luck. It has been honor completing this expansion with you all.

[yuuka]

what?

[luthein]

The original post reads as sign off because I knew that for normal I'm happy to do whatever, but for heroic mode I'd rather min/max. If people would rather casual it up, that's cool, but its not for me.

Best of luck. It has been honor completing this expansion with you all.

Its been fun chuck. Ill always remember the very important lessons about Broodlord.

You hetero-gaylover,
Luthein

[Camford]

I am confused, you leaving the guild, backing off from Raiding or just stating your feelings Car?

lol

[Cargoth]

Hanging up raiding until Cata. I want to min/max, it would appear others don't. I don't want to casually approach heroic modes.

The lesson I learned from Broodlord was that Earen couldn't read a combat log (or didn't know what one was). Although in fairness to her, I think only Deft and I were really doing that at the time, and that was because we had access to analytical tools to parse them that your average player didn't.
And arguing with her was pointless. There wasn't any way she was going to become informed. LOL, bet you thought I was going to leave something like that out.

[luthein]

Hanging up raiding until Cata. I want to min/max, it would appear others don't. I don't want to casually approach heroic modes.

The lesson I learned from Broodlord was that Earen couldn't read a combat log (or didn't know what one was). Although in fairness to her, I think only Deft and I were really doing that at the time, and that was because we had access to analytical tools to parse them that your average player didn't.
And arguing with her was pointless. There wasn't any way she was going to become informed. LOL, bet you thought I was going to leave something like that out.

Since then I've never assumed someone "knows" what they are talking about, unless they have some pudding to back it up. Most epic display of "someone has to be wrong here, and its gona be epic to find out who"

[Arthonos]

About the min / max thing, hasn't judgements unofficial slogan been "Casually clearing endgame content since 2005"? I'm sure to some extent the more relaxed, not pushing super hard attitude is what has allowed us to survive for so long without exploding like many other guilds.

Speaking of 2005, our founding anniversary is coming up next month. Which means I will need LOTS of materials, so mail any extra you have to me. /end thread highjack

[Enkidu]

<3 Arth

[Mandrake]

I thought that we determined what Arth said a LONG time ago, way back before I stopped raiding. We determined that we were either the most casual hardcore guild around, or the most hardcore casual guild around. We get stuff done, we have only ever given up on one instance (Sunwell), and for this go-around we have cleared all content, in normal mode at least. The hardcore min/maxing required for some of the hardest of ICC25 hard modes is really not our style, especially seeing as how it probably involves making great guildies sit out who have been in the guild for years and have great raid attendance. I'd say just keep doing it like we have always done it, work on hardmodes that are attainable, and keep making progress till Cataclysm.

[Cargoth]

I wasn't really trying to get into it, just figured I should post something as it would be glaring obvious when I didn't and everyone has earned more than silence from me for all the hard work they've put in. But as long as we are getting into it:

"Casually clearing endgame content since 2005"

I dumped that slogan a while ago, I didn't want to deal with the usual Judgement implodes early at the end of the series bullshit. I think everyone else is happy with the fact that we didn't this implode extremely early this time around too (and thanks for sticking with it!).
In the interests of not disintegrating early, I substituted it with something like "The minimum necessary min/max to keep the raid running." We are at the point where that minimum bar needs to be raised again.

If people are happy with where we are and don't want to raise the bar for the next part of content that is fine.
I don't want to participate in the slow (or fast) death of raiding if people don't want to raise that bar again. It is too emotionally painful when you are more tied to the raid's success than the purples' your character is getting for this process to happen.

[Zyblue]

Well we've cleared all the regular content (which is wonderful) but we didn't do many hardmodes in Ulduar and we never even came close to getting past Faction Champs in ToC. How far are folks expecting to get on Hardmodes in ICC?

I don't mind wiping as part of the process of getting a boss down. But throwing ourselves over and over again at a fight that requires proper planing and expecting different results? The preparation for some of those fights will require a certain amount of min/maxing.

If folks just want to get shiny 277 loot off of the bosses that aren't serious heroics then I guess that is fine. Just don't forget that is all going to get replaced in a hurry in Cata.

[Floondis]

I thought that we determined what Arth said a LONG time ago, way back before I stopped raiding. We determined that we were either the most casual hardcore guild around, or the most hardcore casual guild around. We get stuff done, we have only ever given up on one instance (Sunwell), and for this go-around we have cleared all content, in normal mode at least. The hardcore min/maxing required for some of the hardest of ICC25 hard modes is really not our style, especially seeing as how it probably involves making great guildies sit out who have been in the guild for years and have great raid attendance. I'd say just keep doing it like we have always done it, work on hardmodes that are attainable, and keep making progress till Cataclysm.

'Floondis likes this.'

[Arthonos]

"The minimum necessary min/max to keep the raid running."

Difficult topic for me to comment on given my work schedule and lack of raiding, but I'm not really sure to what level of min/max the guild goes to. I was under the impression that people show up with consumables, with the correct raiding spec, enchants, and gems. This seams like the normal level of what should be expected of raiders. The line in my mind that defines the difference between casual and hardcore is Judgement doesn't min/max our players. If we start running DPS meters and kick people for under performing, then we will have crossed the line into hardcore. But if I'm completely off the mark on what you are talking about the disregard this

P.S. Starcraft 2 is AWESOME!

[Mikade]

Indeed Arth. Starcraft 2 is indeed fun.

I'm at work right now. Last night, I installed the game via digital download and purchased the game a little after 1pm today. Went home during lunch and played a quick AI game. Mind you, I haven't played starcraft in 10 years.

Got WTF pwned in 5 minutes by the AI. Never had so much fun getting my ass kicked in a game. Looking forward to starting the campaign and tutorials tonight.

Going to imagine IF and Dalaran might be a little sparse tonight :-)

[Enkidu]

The line in my mind that defines the difference between casual and hardcore is Judgement doesn't min/max our players. If we start running DPS meters and kick people for under performing, then we will have crossed the line into hardcore. But if I'm completely off the mark on what you are talking about the disregard this

You are 100% right.
This is the "min/maxing" that isn't and won't be done.

[luthein]

And this is the "min/maxing" that isn't and won't be done.

I dont think asking people to be there on time, and consistently if we want to do hardmodes is super extreme, but it would have to be required. I am talking about the same people(min req same tanks/heals) every week for hard modes. It's understandable that this is a family oriented guild of mostly working adults, and that task may not be executable to the level we would need to be successful in learning new content. Having said that, I don't think the direction the guild has chosen to go with is unreasonable tbh. That's the guild's history, and probably the future. For me, I came back to judgment to help and raid with friends, and since nen and charles are no longer playing and we no longer plan on learning new stuff, ill be concentrating on raiding with my druid.

I think you guys will find a way to raid and have fun, just how it was always done before. Good luck, have fun, and ill see yah all in gchat.

-loof

[Typh]

No one said we don't plan on learning knew stuff. The only thing said is we have a different method of doing so. We still plan on raiding. We still plan on killing new stuff provided people actually show up to raid. Just because Cargoth has decided to not raid because it's not his approach of doing so, does not mean that we have no leadership anymore. Cargoth was not the only one who did anything leadership wise, he just happened to be the voice. Most raid ideas have come from ochat / officer forums where it's obviously not viewable to everyone, and from actual raid members voicing ideas during the raid itself.

The point being, Judgement raiding isn't dead, but if people keep this mindset that it is, obviously our attendance is going to suffer and it will die. It's up to you.

P.S.: We're also looking for some officers. If anyone is up for the job, let us know.